ergle2
Sep 19, 12:14 PM
so... after reading here for a while i got a question, its kinda stupid, i'm good at that,
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
princealfie
Nov 29, 09:53 AM
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000516.php
hulugu
Mar 17, 01:45 PM
...@5p who says Ron Paul would be any different once elected into office. Its obvious that once presidents get into office that something changes and they try to govern from the middle.
This seems to be the unfortunate reality. While, as other have pointed out, Obama has worked towards withdrawing US forces in Iraq and reengaging in Afghanistan�both things that he said he would do�Obama has failed in closing Guantanamo and recent debacles in Pakistan and Afghanistan have hurt our image in the Mid East and Central Asia.
It's interesting, I don't see hypocrisy on Obama's part, rather I see him trying and failing to deal with shifting realities on the ground and a combative political party.
I think Obama might be right about Libya, even if it's another military engagement.
I think Obama's right about Afghanistan, even though we need to reign in the CIA's operations in Pakistan.
I think Obama's right about Iraq, we needed to leave years ago and now is certainly the time to go.
I think Obama's wrong about military tribunals at Guantanamo, but I also understand that the situation is complex, difficult, and fraught with fear-mongering from the right.
I also think he's wrong about the PATRIOT Act.
Of course, the question of whether Ron Paul would be any different is effectively academic because Paul has yet to survive a GOP primary. If Republicans agree with Paul on these issues, they should make Paul their next presidential candidate.
...
He's a common sense constitutional conservative, enemy of tyranny everywhere, and an unfailing defender of fundamental human liberty.
Apparently, he's Captain America.
This seems to be the unfortunate reality. While, as other have pointed out, Obama has worked towards withdrawing US forces in Iraq and reengaging in Afghanistan�both things that he said he would do�Obama has failed in closing Guantanamo and recent debacles in Pakistan and Afghanistan have hurt our image in the Mid East and Central Asia.
It's interesting, I don't see hypocrisy on Obama's part, rather I see him trying and failing to deal with shifting realities on the ground and a combative political party.
I think Obama might be right about Libya, even if it's another military engagement.
I think Obama's right about Afghanistan, even though we need to reign in the CIA's operations in Pakistan.
I think Obama's right about Iraq, we needed to leave years ago and now is certainly the time to go.
I think Obama's wrong about military tribunals at Guantanamo, but I also understand that the situation is complex, difficult, and fraught with fear-mongering from the right.
I also think he's wrong about the PATRIOT Act.
Of course, the question of whether Ron Paul would be any different is effectively academic because Paul has yet to survive a GOP primary. If Republicans agree with Paul on these issues, they should make Paul their next presidential candidate.
...
He's a common sense constitutional conservative, enemy of tyranny everywhere, and an unfailing defender of fundamental human liberty.
Apparently, he's Captain America.
jonnysods
Apr 6, 10:44 AM
Sign me up for this please!!!
Gurutech
Aug 7, 08:16 PM
Yes, absolutely:
Enhanced 64-bit Support
Leopard delivers 64-bit power in one, universal OS. Now Cocoa and Carbon application frameworks, as well as graphics, scripting, and the rest of the system are all 64-bit. Leopard delivers 64-bit power to both Intel- and PowerPC-based Macs, so you don�t have to install separate applications for different machines. There�s only one version of Mac OS X, so you don�t need to maintain separate operating systems for different uses.
Bridge the Generation Gap
Now that the entire operating system is 64-bit, you can take full advantage of the Xeon chip in Mac Pro and Xserve. You get more processing power at up to 3.0GHz, without limiting your programs to command-line applications, servers, and computation engines. From G3 to Xeon, from MacBook to Xserve, there is just one Leopard.
Wait. Does this mean that the Leopard doesn't support current MBP or MB? the ones that use 32 bit Yonah based Core Duo CPU.
Enhanced 64-bit Support
Leopard delivers 64-bit power in one, universal OS. Now Cocoa and Carbon application frameworks, as well as graphics, scripting, and the rest of the system are all 64-bit. Leopard delivers 64-bit power to both Intel- and PowerPC-based Macs, so you don�t have to install separate applications for different machines. There�s only one version of Mac OS X, so you don�t need to maintain separate operating systems for different uses.
Bridge the Generation Gap
Now that the entire operating system is 64-bit, you can take full advantage of the Xeon chip in Mac Pro and Xserve. You get more processing power at up to 3.0GHz, without limiting your programs to command-line applications, servers, and computation engines. From G3 to Xeon, from MacBook to Xserve, there is just one Leopard.
Wait. Does this mean that the Leopard doesn't support current MBP or MB? the ones that use 32 bit Yonah based Core Duo CPU.
NoSmokingBandit
Dec 8, 09:05 PM
DoFoT:
It depends on what you want from a game. If you care more about driving and tuning than painting and whatnot go buy GT5. Its all about driving and not much else.
I love it because i'm a bit of a car nerd. If you like cars you will like GT5. If you love cars you will love GT5, its just that simple.
I have 500k burning a hole in my digital pocket, but i'm saving up for a race car. The advanced kart races have so much prize money... its awesome :D I'm loving my 458 Italia too. I dominated the MR races with it. I only spent about 40k on tuning it, and 80% of that was tires.
Any suggestions on a race car when i get enough cash? I'd prefer something AWD unless it wont be allowed in some of the extreme races. That would limit me quite a bit, but a GTR would work if there even is a GTR Race Car. I'll have to look.
It depends on what you want from a game. If you care more about driving and tuning than painting and whatnot go buy GT5. Its all about driving and not much else.
I love it because i'm a bit of a car nerd. If you like cars you will like GT5. If you love cars you will love GT5, its just that simple.
I have 500k burning a hole in my digital pocket, but i'm saving up for a race car. The advanced kart races have so much prize money... its awesome :D I'm loving my 458 Italia too. I dominated the MR races with it. I only spent about 40k on tuning it, and 80% of that was tires.
Any suggestions on a race car when i get enough cash? I'd prefer something AWD unless it wont be allowed in some of the extreme races. That would limit me quite a bit, but a GTR would work if there even is a GTR Race Car. I'll have to look.
paul4339
Mar 22, 01:00 PM
Unfortunately you're so very right. Until it's in the hand and on the shelves it's vaporware.
...
Yes, I think they should at least have a model that they can 'power on' before they say that it's going to be released on June 8 (that's just over 2 months away to get it working and out the door!)
P.
...
Yes, I think they should at least have a model that they can 'power on' before they say that it's going to be released on June 8 (that's just over 2 months away to get it working and out the door!)
P.
iliketyla
Mar 31, 02:33 PM
Let the Apple fanboys begin patting each other on the back, and taking something and running wild with it.
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
ThunderSkunk
Apr 7, 10:44 PM
Not a best buy / walmart fan. It's hard to say they bring a negative perception of cheapening the brands they carry without coming off like a pompous ass, but perception is subjective, and that's just how they come across to me.
Stuff like this doesn't help.
Stuff like this doesn't help.
iGary
Sep 12, 11:02 AM
The folks over at Anandtech have dropped engineering samples of the quad core cloverton into a Mac Pro - http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
tortoise
Aug 7, 09:14 PM
Lots of ways it COULD be implemented. Looks at Suns new file system ZFS. It is basically "Copy on Write". With a file system you can do things even fancier then with a DBMS. For example a "block" (i-node) exists physicaly on the disk only once but it could be maped into any numbr of files. If a file in only an orderd set of block numbers then to copy a copy all you need to copy is the set of numbers which is on the order of 1000 times shorter then the data itself.
Ahem, a modern relational database system can do everything a file system can. In fact, they are both databases, but optimized for different tasks and slightly different semantics. The same behaviors can be achieved with both; it is a matter of design bias, not capability. File systems like ZFS actually converge on normal MVCC database behavior, which durably journals all writes but with more flexibility with respect to atomicity and version cleanup than a file system. File system semantics, even versioning ones, are more primitive and less capable than database ones, but with substantially increased performance over what would be possible from an MVCC database for the same task.
Same theory, different optimizations. The balancing act has always been between the power fully ACID-compliant MVCC semantics and the basic speed of simple file system semantics. Apple and Sun are burning some excess performance capacity to deliver features that are closer to the database ideal.
Ahem, a modern relational database system can do everything a file system can. In fact, they are both databases, but optimized for different tasks and slightly different semantics. The same behaviors can be achieved with both; it is a matter of design bias, not capability. File systems like ZFS actually converge on normal MVCC database behavior, which durably journals all writes but with more flexibility with respect to atomicity and version cleanup than a file system. File system semantics, even versioning ones, are more primitive and less capable than database ones, but with substantially increased performance over what would be possible from an MVCC database for the same task.
Same theory, different optimizations. The balancing act has always been between the power fully ACID-compliant MVCC semantics and the basic speed of simple file system semantics. Apple and Sun are burning some excess performance capacity to deliver features that are closer to the database ideal.
soulatrium
Aug 26, 05:53 PM
The only change is likely to be the cpu. The rest of the MBP will probably be kept the same and if you look at the yonah vs merom benchmarks at places like AnandTech, it probably isn't worth sending it back.
NOT true, I think. Macbooks already have new features like a magnetic latch and easy upgradeability. We will see this at the very least in the next MBP update, as Apple has never let consumer features be absent from pro machines for long
NOT true, I think. Macbooks already have new features like a magnetic latch and easy upgradeability. We will see this at the very least in the next MBP update, as Apple has never let consumer features be absent from pro machines for long
shawnce
Aug 7, 11:32 PM
So it's fair to say that developers have received their copy of Leopard? Folks that attend WWDC get the Mac OS X Leopord preview and ADC members with seed keys will likely get it within a couple weeks to a month.
Thomas Veil
Apr 28, 04:51 PM
Jesus wasn't born in America, yet you don't see Republicans trying to keep him out of government.Highly droll. I see we're channeling Mark Twain tonight. :D
iJawn108
Jul 20, 04:55 PM
New MacPro rev2.
8 cores = 24Ghz
(with Free fire extinguisher and ear plugs) :p
I really laughed out loud at that. :p
8 cores = 24Ghz
(with Free fire extinguisher and ear plugs) :p
I really laughed out loud at that. :p
satkin2
Apr 7, 11:43 AM
I can understand the debate about graphics and processors having positive and negative affects for folks who use Airs for work etc;
But how would this affect average Mac users, the people who walk into the store, see iLife and the other standard Mac features, and walk out with a MacBook Air.
How would it impact running iTunes. From a graphics perspective, how would it impact the export of say an hours home made movie in iMovie? (Quite a long process on my 08 Macbook).
But how would this affect average Mac users, the people who walk into the store, see iLife and the other standard Mac features, and walk out with a MacBook Air.
How would it impact running iTunes. From a graphics perspective, how would it impact the export of say an hours home made movie in iMovie? (Quite a long process on my 08 Macbook).
backdraft
Aug 26, 02:49 PM
Call it what you want but these new MacBooks are crap. Yea there is people who are enjoying theirs without a hitch but look at all the reports of problems. Not once on this forum have we had a flood of problems with a single unit. Apple dropped the ball on this one. Poorly made unit
Apple is now getting their parts from the same bin that PC makers use. Intel = cheap parts. Cheap parts = low quality.
Same thing with the batteries....
OS X can run on PPC and X86. Apple should target X86 to consumers and PPC for pro's.
That $100 million that Apple just wasted on Creative could have meant new supercooled mobile G5's if it would have been pumped into IBM (Power.org). Instead we have these halfbaked Wintel parts to deal with MUCH fewer problems with PowerPC based Mac's.
http://www.appledefects.com/?cat=6
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro
Apple is now getting their parts from the same bin that PC makers use. Intel = cheap parts. Cheap parts = low quality.
Same thing with the batteries....
OS X can run on PPC and X86. Apple should target X86 to consumers and PPC for pro's.
That $100 million that Apple just wasted on Creative could have meant new supercooled mobile G5's if it would have been pumped into IBM (Power.org). Instead we have these halfbaked Wintel parts to deal with MUCH fewer problems with PowerPC based Mac's.
http://www.appledefects.com/?cat=6
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro
donlphi
Nov 28, 11:04 PM
Universal has already stated that half of the money will be going to the artists.
YEAH RIGHT... here you go EMINEM... here is your .00000000000000017 of a cent you get for this ZUNE. Just trying to share the wealth with ALL THE ARTISTS. Those artists will never see that money. PLEASE. HOW naive could you be?
Microsoft's lack of backbone is going to make us all pay... wait and see.
YEAH RIGHT... here you go EMINEM... here is your .00000000000000017 of a cent you get for this ZUNE. Just trying to share the wealth with ALL THE ARTISTS. Those artists will never see that money. PLEASE. HOW naive could you be?
Microsoft's lack of backbone is going to make us all pay... wait and see.
grue
Apr 12, 12:54 AM
Barely any of these are features you NEED. Yes we all want a faster NLE, but people are talking like FCP doesn't work, and is light years behind. All it needs is an update to 64 bit, new quicktime platform, and some other things which I won't go into.
Are you saying you would prefer they give it the ability to use more memory before they give it the ability to use more processing cores? Because that's the only thing 64bit is going to give you.
Yes, it does most of what I "need", but the competition does most of them better. Final Cut used to be cutting edge, now it's slow, inefficient and buggy.
Are you saying you would prefer they give it the ability to use more memory before they give it the ability to use more processing cores? Because that's the only thing 64bit is going to give you.
Yes, it does most of what I "need", but the competition does most of them better. Final Cut used to be cutting edge, now it's slow, inefficient and buggy.
Glideslope
Mar 31, 06:14 PM
I've really loved my experience with Android so far. I've had an iPhone and a iPhone 3G and I am an iPhone developer.... yet I use Android.
Android will always be "open source" and this is not inconsistent with Google applying more control to stem inoperable fragmentation. These two ideas are not at odds.
I cannot wait for Google to do what I think Amazon is currently trying to do with their new App. Store.
That said I really like the new iPad 2, but sadly my next purchase would prolly be a i7 MacBook Pro.
Fragmentation, more control, more fragmentation, more control, more......
Microsoft, Vista, more Microsoft, more Vista, more.....
Too late. What comes after Honey Comb will be the test. Honey Comb = Mobile Vista. :apple:
Android will always be "open source" and this is not inconsistent with Google applying more control to stem inoperable fragmentation. These two ideas are not at odds.
I cannot wait for Google to do what I think Amazon is currently trying to do with their new App. Store.
That said I really like the new iPad 2, but sadly my next purchase would prolly be a i7 MacBook Pro.
Fragmentation, more control, more fragmentation, more control, more......
Microsoft, Vista, more Microsoft, more Vista, more.....
Too late. What comes after Honey Comb will be the test. Honey Comb = Mobile Vista. :apple:
Yamcha
Apr 19, 01:58 PM
Alright, I was originally going to take Apple's side on this, since I could clearly see it looks a lot like iOS, but having looked at Samsung's F700, I don' think Apple has any right to sue..
Although the Samsung F700 has very simple icons, Apple clearly has the same placement of icons, even looking at the bottom you find the four dock like icons..
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9559/samsungf700cellular.jpg
I'd say that Apple copied Samsung :P.. Honestly I'm not one to take sides just because I like Apple Products, I just think its wrong to sue since Samsung clearly had this type of UI first.. Apple has no right to sue..
Although the Samsung F700 has very simple icons, Apple clearly has the same placement of icons, even looking at the bottom you find the four dock like icons..
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9559/samsungf700cellular.jpg
I'd say that Apple copied Samsung :P.. Honestly I'm not one to take sides just because I like Apple Products, I just think its wrong to sue since Samsung clearly had this type of UI first.. Apple has no right to sue..
EagerDragon
Aug 25, 06:38 PM
When I read a lot of posts where people complain about Apple service, it seems that it is offten from non-US. Is this my imagination or does Apple need to kick the Arse of their international support groups?
:D
:D
Stridder44
Jul 20, 02:27 PM
I disagree. I think Apple will use Core 2 Duo (Conroe) in the iMac, and Merom in the MBP. The iMac could hold a G5, why not Conroe?
On top of that, you'll notice that a 2.16 GHz Conroe costs $70 less than the 1.83 GHz Yonah that's in the iMac now, $70 less than a 2 GHz Merom, and $200 less than a 2.16 GHz Merom, increasing Apple's profit margins on the iMac considerably or allowing a price drop- plus they can advertise it as a desktop processor.
In fact, even if Conroe was too hot (which I highly doubt, since the iMac had a G5), a 2.16 GHz Conroe underclocked to 2 GHz still saves $70 over a 2 GHz Merom.
But what about the MacBook!! *weeps*
On top of that, you'll notice that a 2.16 GHz Conroe costs $70 less than the 1.83 GHz Yonah that's in the iMac now, $70 less than a 2 GHz Merom, and $200 less than a 2.16 GHz Merom, increasing Apple's profit margins on the iMac considerably or allowing a price drop- plus they can advertise it as a desktop processor.
In fact, even if Conroe was too hot (which I highly doubt, since the iMac had a G5), a 2.16 GHz Conroe underclocked to 2 GHz still saves $70 over a 2 GHz Merom.
But what about the MacBook!! *weeps*
Chupa Chupa
Aug 25, 08:51 PM
Ask me, phone support has been pretty lousy for years (at least since 1996 or whenever they instituted the stupid 90-day support rule that doesn't mirror the 1 year warranty.) Call up about an issue outside the 90-days and if AppleCare shoots you down (usually they will) they charge your CC. Crazy since lesser makers, HP and Dell, treat customers better. Meanwhile, you can take the same troubled machine to the Apple Store and usually the Geniuses will get your Mac fixed with little hassle.
A few years ago (I think it was the G4 Quicksilver) a phone support tech told me my (self-installed) ATA/100 hard drive wasn't working on the secondary ATA/66 hard drive bus because it was too fast! I told her that no one has made an ATA/66 hard drive for years. She told me that I shouldn't use a drive on that bus then...even those it was designed specifically for extra hard drives. 2nd Level techs wouldn't help me either. I ended up having to schlep the machine to the Apple Store where the Genius, after a few tests, confirmed I needed a new logic board.
Maybe it's just me, but phone support always wants to dismiss my issue and push me off the phone. When my MBP was whining they told me my hearing was too sensitive! Only months later did they admit a problem. Maybe THAT is why there is a growing dissatisfaction. Personally, I've loathed calling for years.
A few years ago (I think it was the G4 Quicksilver) a phone support tech told me my (self-installed) ATA/100 hard drive wasn't working on the secondary ATA/66 hard drive bus because it was too fast! I told her that no one has made an ATA/66 hard drive for years. She told me that I shouldn't use a drive on that bus then...even those it was designed specifically for extra hard drives. 2nd Level techs wouldn't help me either. I ended up having to schlep the machine to the Apple Store where the Genius, after a few tests, confirmed I needed a new logic board.
Maybe it's just me, but phone support always wants to dismiss my issue and push me off the phone. When my MBP was whining they told me my hearing was too sensitive! Only months later did they admit a problem. Maybe THAT is why there is a growing dissatisfaction. Personally, I've loathed calling for years.
